Ray Stanford (Part 1)
Conversations With Ray Stanford (Part 1)
By Ed Komarek
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My blog: http://exopolitics.blogspot.com/
I had a marathon phone conversation with Ray Stanford that lasted around eight hours the better part of a day. Ray is now seventy one years old and had a severe heart attack some time ago. As far as I know there is nobody in the world who has done as much of the hard science on UFOs as has Ray. His lifetime work of capturing UFOs on film and with scientific instruments is unprecedented. Most of us that have been in the UFOET field for awhile know of some of Ray’s earlier work a little of which is on the Internet. http://www.nicap.org/madar/psi-sympap80.htm and http://www.usatoday.com/tech/science/discoveries/2008-01-12-dinotracker_N.htm?csp=DailyBriefing
In this long conversation, Ray got me up to speed and expressed to me that he has continued this work quietly and out of the public eye. He explained to me in great detail something of his large body of solid scientific evidence, not only as to the existence of extraterrestrial spacecraft and occupants, but detailed scientific evidence as to the nature of the craft and the propulsion systems involved. He tells me he has close up photos of occupants in crafts that have never been made public. He has offered to brief me on this evidence if I can make it to Washington DC where he now lives.
Ray says he has briefed many high level scientists over his lifetime involved in both classified and unclassified research in plasma dynamics and electromagnetic propulsion systems and they have been amazed at the hard evidence he has accumulated. He discussed this all with me in great detail giving names, dates, places and names. He believes and I agree that there is nobody in the public domain anywhere that has as much hard evidence and detailed scientific knowledge and understanding as he has of anomalous aerial objects or AAOs, as Ray prefers to call what he has been tracking and how they operate.
Ray’s experiences with the UFO/ET community have been disappointing to him partly because the community is so infiltrated by the intelligence community and that a number of “researchers” work directly or indirectly for the CIA and other intelligence organizations. He shared with me his very detailed experiences with well-known persons in FUFOR and some other UFO organizations.
Ray and I believe that these organizations on the surface appear to be supporting serious scientific investigation of UFOs but in fact are working covertly to do everything they can to misguide UFO studies away from hard data monitoring (with instruments such as recording gravimeters, recording magnetometers, high-resolution cameras, spectrographic cameras, etc.).
We both believe establishment UFO/ET organizations are deliberately diverting public and scientific attention into less productive avenues such as trace-case studies and anecdotal accounts provided by civilian investigators or by government releases. Ray and I both agree there is very little hard serious scientific research going on in the UFO community, in a large part because of the intelligence community infiltration and the effects of counterintelligence operations. This clarification document provides evidence that the CIA has overall control in intelligence gathering and counterintelligence involving the UFO/ET subject.
Ray also shared with me his experiences with contactees such as George Adamski when he was a young man. At the time he believed in the stories of Adamski and misinterpreted his early UFO encounters in a contactee context. He was quickly set straight when Adamski confined in him the details of how he was hoaxing UFO photos and the fact that he had never had physical contact with alien craft or with their occupants. Such experiences with Adamski and with other “contactees” like Dan Fry and George Van Tassel, Ray says, taught him to be very skeptical of contactee claims.
Ray has spoken out about both CIA infiltration into UFO research and hoaxing by leading contactee figures so it’s understandable that he is not very popular with many in the UFO/ET community establishment. It’s interesting that in my earlier years I too identified and spoke out against many of these same leaders for running counter-intelligence operations against the UFO community and the public at large.
Ray told me in detail his personal conversations and interactions with these leaders. Ray said, “One very well respected researcher when confronted even confessed to accepting $20,000 from a well known alleged hoaxer and then defiantly announced that he would soon be paid much more money by the alleged hoaxer to support his claims, photos, and videos, and that it was none of Ray's business.”
(Some may think Ray a bit hard in some of his accusations but that seems to be because he has seen so much of it and we are dealing at his time with simple surface features. Ray says he once asked Wendelle Stevens why he was publishing material that he knew was hoaxed. Wendelle honestly replied, “There is no money in exposing hoaxes.”) :-)
Regardless of what this respected Gulf Breeze investigator’s true intentions were, I see at least a perception of a serious potential conflict of interest and scientific impartiality problem regarding the validity of the investigation and the investigator’s character and motives in pursuing that investigation under such circumstances. I hope a convincing explanation is forthcoming from this researcher, meanwhile I will move up to the bleachers for the show. :-)
(Readers should keep in mind that there is much more going on here than meets the eye and that this is only one small tip of a very large mostly CIA intelligence iceberg in which I am jerking a few intelligence operative’s chains and they know who they are. Some UFO investigators should be questioned carefully if they have ever been involved in CIA UFO/ET counterintelligence operations in the UFO/ET field in general and specifically against other honest UFO investigators and researchers. My guess is that the silence may be deafening. :-) )
Ray also mentioned a well known and respected so called “scientific researcher” with CIA connections whose history goes back to the days of NICAP, when pressured by another person at a 1987 FUFOR meeting, about funding for the joint MUFON-FUFOR 1987 international symposium at American University admitted that a sum of over $100,000 came from a known CIA front organization in Alexandria, Virginia. Ray even named the corporation and told how he had verified that name and the corporation's CIA affiliation by a Ph.D. who the corporation had attempted to hire. This was also confirmed by a retired employee of the NSA, and by others who are familiar with this CIA front corporation.
I have realized over the years how simply pathetic the situation is in the UFO/ET community being infiltrated to this degree, being betrayed and sold out by its own trusted leaders who are being bought and paid for by the CIA-MJ 12. (Ray is skeptical about the leaked MJ 12 documents, and refuses to get sidetracked by public debate on such matters.) http://www.majesticdocuments.com/
In the case of infiltration into UFO skeptics and UFO/ET investigators groups, I believe that both sides are being covertly manipulated to create a constant state of turmoil and conflict within the overall community. One shutters to think that this same sort of thing is going on not just in the UFO community but with the media, entertainment industry, scientific community and national governments. MJ 12 and the respected scientist Menzel started infiltrating and running counterintelligence operations in the scientific community to dupe scientists about UFO in earnest as evidenced by this MJ 12 memo.
Naturally all this has left Ray very disillusioned with the UFO community, but he does keep up with developments on the Internet. He very strongly believes that the best route for him is to quietly present his evidence directly to the scientific community using established scientific protocols. If he wanted to, he could raise havoc with CIA-MJ 12 intelligence networks in UFO community that have worked to contain his scientific work over his lifetime.
Ray seems to have a photographic memory and he can rattle off names, dates, places and detailed conversations just as well as he can describe the details of UFO events he has recorded with his instrumentation. In the case of Adamski and Uri Geller he was able to even able to mimic their voices. Ray detailed to me some very extraordinary experiences he had with Uri Geller, that have been published in various publications. Uri and one of his managers tried to talk Ray into working for him because Uri’s powers were dramatically expanded through some kind of psychic chemistry between the two. Ray refused, “saying he had more important work to do than just going all over the world with Uri, working as a "psychic battery"”.
(Note people not closely associated with Ray are sometimes prone to denigrate Ray’s scientific work because of his open discussion of his many remarkable contextual psychic experiences over his extraordinary lifetime. This is an area that I hope to publish in more articles. I have had an additional 4 hour conversation discussing these psychic experiences as this article was being edited by Ray.
It is and will be easy for the uninformed or marginally informed to dismiss these experiences as fraudulent or nuts but I find them fascinating in fleshing out the vastness of the contextual reality being experienced. This is not just about nuts and bolts craft and occupants but much more. I think Ray rightly feels his scientific work should stand independent of his personal experiences and on their own scientific merit regardless of his many fantastic personal lifetime experiences.
The separation of an individual’s scientific work from personal experience and belief is established scientific protocol. Advocating the mixing a scientist’s personal experience and beliefs with that person’s scientific work to discredit the scientific work is acting in a very unscientific, reckless and deceptive manner.)
It was obvious from the long conversation that Ray’s many-decades work in obtaining UFO hard data acceptable to mainstream science, and his preparation to present it to the scientific community, have not been liked by one or two individuals and groups that we agreed have past and/or present connections to the intelligence community. He was told in 1975 (at the Fort Smith UFO conference) by Phil Klass, that he, Ray, was the only person (in concert with Ray's organization) doing the kind of work (with instrumented UFO hard-data monitoring) that could potentially cause him to loose his (Klass's) bets that no scientifically acceptable evidence of alien technology visiting earth would ever be obtained.
Ray thinks he can succeed in bringing the instrument-recorded evidence collected over several decades to the scientific community and that it could usher the scientific approach to physical UFO studies into mainstream science. On the other hand Ray says some of his evidence (relevant to UFO intelligences and their possible significance to humanity) is very disturbing and that he has serious questions about its disclosure. He and I argued back and forth over the points pro and con for disclosure intensely at different times in the phone conversation.
Much of Ray’s personal experiences will, by his own intention, only be published after his death and I am sure that what he has to say is going to make for some very interesting and controversial reading. Meanwhile he hopes to present his propulsion-diagnostic, instrument-recorded evidence as soon as is practical in a credibly scientific manner to the scientific community. I for one hope he is able to do this and he should have the support of those of us who truly work for and understand the need for disclosure. I hope my friends and associates at OM will open a channel of communication with Ray and support him any way possible.
Ray Stanford has begun to put some of his data up on the Internet at the following site for those who are interested in real scientific UFO science.